The CAC attorney told me I ask too many questions. Here’s his exact letter followed by my response.
Good Morning Mr. Hetsler:
I am sending you this e-mail today in my capacity of General Counsel to the Pinal County Community College District and Central Arizona College, at the request of CAC President Jackie Elliott. I am hopeful that once you have reviewed this we can consider the issues you have raised, resolved.
In reviewing your emails to President Elliott and other staff members, what has happened is that you have lost the distinction between public records requests and questions, interrogatories, requests for further information and/or requests for explanations.
For example:
“Thank you for the information. I feel that the questions raised to date have been sufficiently answered…” [Hetsler 10-29-25].
“You still need to tell me about the Performing Arts Center beyond a simple generalized statement that it may cost 20 million…
“When was it approved?”
“What was the cost estimate?”
“Were there any pictures or descriptions of its functionality or purpose?”
“Was the Board provided the information or having such discussion?”
“How much was available on 6-30-25”
[Hetsler 10-21-25].
“My main objectives in this letter are to address:
- which costs are associated with which campus?
- which costs are associated with on-line learning vs. on-site learning?
- can you explain the breakdown of the xxxx codes associated with the costs?”
[Hetsler 12-1-25].
“Jerry Walker has talked of a ‘referendum’…Can you clarify that in general terms?”
[Hetsler 12-1-25].
“I know who the financial controller and budget managers are and generally what they do…so anything you can tell me about the situation, while still respecting confidentiality, would be appreciated.”
[Hetsler 12-7-25].
“As you can see, there are a lot of management positions I haven’t asked about, so I’ve been judicious in this selection and do not plan to ask any further questions until after the holidays…”
[Hetsler 12-7-25].
The distinction between an actual public record request for documents or records, and questions or requests for explanations such as those above, is an important one. Public records requests must be responded to by law, while questions, requests for further information, or requests for explanations may be answered, or not, in the discretion of the person they have been directed to.
While not obliged to do so, CAC has nonetheless taken the time and effort to respond to many of your questions out of respect for your status as a constituent of the District. However, the effort that is required to respond to the volume of inquiries you have directed to the College is not sustainable, especially during a time when CAC is short staffed.
Therefore, going forward, please be advised that inquiries, questions, requests for further information and requests for explanations submitted to CAC will no longer be responded to, in the discretion of the staff member(s) you have directed them to. Actual public records requests submitted will of course be treated as required by law.
On that note, you are correct that your public record requests do not need to be submitted on CAC’s official form. However, doing so would be useful to both you and CAC – it would help keep track of the processing of your requests and would also prevent staff from having to review lengthy e-mails in order to differentiate between your inquiries, questions and requests for further information and actual public record requests for documents and records.
Inasmuch as many of your questions concern the operation of CAC’s Finance Department, I have copied two staff members in Finance on this email.
Thank you,
James E. Mannato
CAC General Counsel
My Response
Mr. Mannato
After this review I don’t feel that the issues raised have been resolved, at least not in a manner we would both be pleased with.
Let’s begin with what we agree on, that although the public records request does not have to be on an official form, it helps to centralize the inquiries to keep track of what’s been requested, which is why I capitulated in filling out the form. As I stated, it would be also beneficial to both parties to have a fillable form. Some of the confusion, however, could have been mitigated by simply answering questions that should have been easily available, without playing games and dragging out the process for weeks.
“What has happened is that you have lost the distinction between public records requests and questions, interrogatories, requests for further information and/or requests for explanations.” I feel that I addressed those issues in my 8-16 e-mail. Please review. Page 3 of the public records booklet gives a broad definition of what constitutes a public record. As the subject comes up in the future you may wish to clarify your definitions.
Even if a question or inquiry is not technically a records request, it does not mean it should not be answered or addressed and not having answers to questions a competent organization should have at hand raises other issues. If it takes 5 minutes to answer, this should not be seen as a huge imposition. Coninually saying you are understaffed would carry more weight if you explain what the dozens of noninstructional bureaucrats do, which you are hesitant to do.
Let me elaborate on the specific issues you cited.
- The Performing Arts Center is not an insignificant issue. Although there was a visual presentation at the 11-19 meeting there was no financial discussion, other than a brief question by Odiorne about an $8million consent agenda item that was glossed over, an item not made available on the website. I’ve talked to a couple of County Supervisors and other public officials that had no idea this was going on.
- The breakdown of the xxxx code, if not already in print somewhere, only took Ms. Clapp a couple of minutes to answer, hardly an onerous request.
- When I was told that what costs are associated with each campus was not available, I accepted that, as well as a generalized response to the cost of the Aravaipa campus and didn’t demand an answer. Again, not an onerous request.
- Similarly, I accepted the answer that you cannot distinguish between on-line learning and on-site learning. Again, not an onerous request.
- The referendum issue was brought up at a public meeting a couple weeks ago and at another last night. I hear a $90 million number tossed about and people want to know what it will go to. When I was told that it would not go on the ballot until 2028, I tabled the issue. If you plan to use the money for capital improvements and new programs, questions 3 & 4 become very relevant whether you want to tell the public or not.
- No answer given on the CFO slot, am not pursuing it, no time lost.
- The request for management descriptions which you refuse to release would appear to fall under the category of personnel records under the law of public records. Since those specific requests cover about $3 million in management and the non-instructional administrative costs of institutional support, student services and academic support exceed the costs of instruction. Most consider it relevant, even if you don’t want to spend a few hours of cut and paste. To then go out and ask for increases in spending without telling people what their employees actually do would be seen by some as the height of arrogance.
While my requests may seem random to some, they are interrelated and I’ve touched on some of these issues on my website. I was ready to update my website before year-end. Now I need to reevaluate how I approach this in light of your renewed adversarial approach.
I will try to integrate future questions as those that should be addressed by a diligent and responsible Board and Administration by integrating them into the budget process, which should save time. Whatever is incorporated into this process is what I will present to the public including what you won’t tell them. Whether you haven’t had to answer the question before, have no intention of asking them or do not understand the importance of the questions is irrelevant.
If I don’t receive the job descriptions, even if in January, then I’ll just tell people you refuse to answer. Other than that, no future response is required by either the Board or Administration. CAC has shown that it can behave professionally and returning to that mode, instead of insulting my intelligence, would seem to save everyone time in the future but that’s a choice you will have to make.
Thank you,
Steve Hetsler
CAC Monitor 